Bus Lane fines for cops in liveried cars going to jobs!

[busterbloodvessel]

So, lorries, vans, tank transporters, people carriers and horse boxes are all fine, but not police cars!

Thinking it through, you should always get an exception if you can prove that the vehicle was "being used for police purposes; and to comply with the legislation would hinder the use to which the vehicle is being put."  Even the routine enquiries that I carry out would comply with that!

Edited to correct sausage-fingered, rain-soaked, blustery HTC predictive text input mongness. Thanks Eden 

[edengarden85]

So, lorries, vans, tank transporters, people carriers and horse boxes are all fine, but not police cars!

Thinking it through, you should always get an exception if you van prove thaw the vehicle was "being used for polo e purpose and to comply with the legislation would hinder the use to which the vehicle is.being put."  Even the routing.e enquiries I carry out would comply with that!

Translation please 

[TIMMY]

They all seem to fulfil the criteria to use a bus lane ( dubious on the private hire but that would be in the TMO). What  is wrong with the foreign bus or private bus using the lane?

I used the word "coach" on purpose, as opposed to "bus". The idea of the bus lanes, as I see it, is to improve the local passenger services' journey times, and therefore promote more use of public transport. As soon as we start allowing more and more vehicles in, the advantages fade.
How many of these other vehicles would happily drive through a No Entry" sign with "Except for Buses" underneath? Very few, I'd imagine. Why is it any different for a piece of coloured tarmac that is, surely, subject to the exact same restrictions?

[SgtAngel]

How many of these other vehicles would happily drive through a No Entry" sign with "Except for Buses" underneath? Very few, I'd imagine. Why is it any different for a piece of coloured tarmac that is, surely, subject to the exact same restrictions?

Alot. If they do it when Rusty or Ch00 are around they get a yellow piece of paper and some decorations for their licence.

[RandomName]

See if you traffic unit has a traffic management officer (they work with local authorities on road schemes providing representation on behalf of the force). Failing that you will need to identify who is responsible for the road. It could be the local unitary authority or even the county council. Make contact with them.

In the MPS we fill in a form requesting cancellation of NIPS and PCN'S which if supported by a Supt gets sent to the issuing authority. I deal with ones incurred by my units fleet.

I checked with our RPU. They were unable to provide me with a copy of any order but informed me that as far as they were aware the order only allowed for police vehicles to use the route if responding to an emergency, not for general patrolling etc.

I'll write to the council and see if they can advise, I'm quite keen to find out what's in place for cops on this route because currently or effectiveness has been reduced and high crime areas aren't being patrolled as a result of the council's lack of sense and discretion!

[Rusty99]

How many of these other vehicles would happily drive through a No Entry" sign with "Except for Buses" underneath? Very few, I'd imagine. Why is it any different for a piece of coloured tarmac that is, surely, subject to the exact same restrictions?

Alot. If they do it when Rusty or Ch00 are around they get a yellow piece of paper and some decorations for their licence.

Ahhh you are so kind, but I fear we have spanked the hell out of that one particular location 

[SgtAngel]

A good example of what not to do when parking the company car to do some shopping....

clicky click

[Ch00]

That paper have no real news to report - must be the summer holidays . 

[Enduro]

I checked with our RPU. They were unable to provide me with a copy of any order but informed me that as far as they were aware the order only allowed for police vehicles to use the route if responding to an emergency, not for general patrolling etc.

I'll write to the council and see if they can advise, I'm quite keen to find out what's in place for cops on this route because currently or effectiveness has been reduced and high crime areas aren't being patrolled as a result of the council's lack of sense and discretion!

Speak to the local councillors and tell them why you won't patrol due to the signs.   When you get the TMO, observe and respond (ticket) any council vehicles that use the route in contravention of the TMO.  That's likely to be the vans watering the hanging baskets, and other utility task

[RandomName]

I was thinking about doing the camera smart cars that the council use to catch bus lane offenders. They park on pavements and junctions for this and I can't find an exemption for them. FPN time I think. Lack of discretion works both ways.

[Enduro]

I was thinking about doing the camera smart cars that the council use to catch bus lane offenders. They park on pavements and junctions for this and I can't find an exemption for them. FPN time I think. Lack of discretion works both ways.

Whilst that may have some short term feel good factor, it doesn't overcome the original problem.  Nothing like a couple of upset, under worked, over puffed councillors to whinge that they ar e not getting the policing they deserve due to a silly lapse in a TMO.   Or, allegedly the local press may have an interest.

[RandomName]

The situation has continued, they're sending NIPs to officers patrolling the area and even to those who are assigned to jobs!

I've finally managed to get a copy of the Traffic Management Order for that part of the road and I've found the part that concerns exemptions. Road Sweepers, Hackney Carriages and Cycles are exempt along with a few situations where just about any vehicle would be exempt. Then we see the emergency services exemption,

Exemptions to contra-flow bus lane and contra-flow cycle lane general
7. (b) Nothing in articles 5 and 6 of this order shall prevent any vehicle from being in the contra-flow bus lane or contra-flow cycle lane if and for as long as necessary to enable the vehicle to be used for any of the purposes specified in paragraph (3) of the article.

(c)The purposes referred to in paragraph (b) of this article are :-

(i) the removal of any obstructed traffic;
(ii) police, fire brigade or ambulance purposes or any vehicle being used in pursuance of statutory powers or duties;
(iii) in the service of any local authority or water undertaking the in pursuance of statutory powers or duties, the maintenance, cleansing, improvement or reconstruction of the length of road or the laying, erection, altercation or repair in or adjacent to the said length of road or any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water, electricity or any telecommunications apparatus as defined in the telecommunications act 1984;
(iv) any demolition or building operation;
(v) the avoidance of an accident;
(vi) allowing a person to get or give help in consequence of an accident or emergency or otherwise take action for public safety;
(vii) compliance with any requirement resulting from works or an emergency in any part of the road adjoining the contra-flow bus lane or contra-flow cycle lane;

Points i and ii I would suggest are going to permit me to use that part of the contra-flow as long as it's a genuine usage and not just me taking a short cut to the butty shop.

The road in question often gets a build up of Hackney Carriages which cause problems for the buses using that route. So that's point i covered.

As for point ii, I would suggest that responding to an incident would be sufficient. A grade 1 obviously has a requirement to get there as quickly as is safely possible, but regardless of the grade assigned to a job by a call handler we as cops have our professional judgement and have to justify our own actions so we can treat each job's response as we feel is necessary. By that I mean that just because a job isn't a grade 1 doesn't mean we should take forever getting there if we truly believe that in doing so harm or damage will be caused or an offender will be able to escape etc. So this goes against the 'only use bus lanes with blue lights on' advice.

We had a bit of a debate at work about what would come under the statutory powers or duties of a police constable in a vehicle, so I'm interested in seeing what you lot think...?

I would suggest that the above would include a high visibility patrol to deter or detect crime, however some of my colleagues didn't agree that this would be sufficient to allow the use of the contra flow because you can travel in the opposing direction if you go the longer way around the block. I can see their point, but I'm not sure that would immediately negate this?

I appreciate this doesn't mean we can simply use the bus lanes at our will or pleasure simply because we're in police vehicles but I would suggest that it means the council's current lack of discretion is going against their own TMO and having a negative impact on policing in the area.

Any views on the above?

[RandomName]

Whilst that may have some short term feel good factor, it doesn't overcome the original problem.  Nothing like a couple of upset, under worked, over puffed councillors to whinge that they ar e not getting the policing they deserve due to a silly lapse in a TMO.   Or, allegedly the local press may have an interest.

Knowing what the local paper's like I know they'd fall over themselves to get hold of such a story, but in doing so I'd be inviting a load of trouble for myself. There's no way I can go to the local press about this without getting some very serious flack at work.

[SgtAngel]

Who says you can only use bus lanes on blues?

Surely each situation is going to be different. Our exemptions can be used irrespective of whether the car is lit up like a Christmas tree and therefore each situation must be takens on it's merits.

I would argue that routine patrolling would be covered under para ii, but I would go with some tangible evidence such as shoplifting / robbery / dipping / ASB being prevalent in the locality at the time your are patrolling.

In defence of the council they will issue the PCN regardless of whether B&T's are being used and you are rolling around on the floor with fine upstanding members of the community. They take the chance you [we] are taking the p155. What I have found out from councils is that fire brigades and ambulance services usually have a good backbone and tell them to bogoff. Can't say the same for some senior police officers who fail to back us. I make a point of driving through a bus only area if I am heading to one of our other bases. It is a busy transit hub which has issues and being a uniformed officer, I can hopefully deter something by just driving through and being seen. I've never had a PCN and would robustly challenge it.

[RandomName]

Who says you can only use bus lanes on blues?

Orders from supervision, not to use the lanes unless under blue lights.

Surely each situation is going to be different. Our exemptions can be used irrespective of whether the car is lit up like a Christmas tree and therefore each situation must be takens on it's merits.

Pretty much my argument, but it wasn't even granted a response except - only under blue lights....

I would argue that routine patrolling would be covered under para ii, but I would go with some tangible evidence such as shoplifting / robbery / dipping / ASB being prevalent in the locality at the time your are patrolling.

That's my view too. It's a busy city centre, it's in an area populated by a mix of families, students and a crowd of drunks. Robberies and assaults occur as people travel from the bars to transport places to go home. However the view is that unless you're going on a blue light run you can't patrol this area and deter the above.

In defence of the council they will issue the PCN regardless of whether B&T's are being used and you are rolling around on the floor with fine upstanding members of the community. They take the chance you [we] are taking the p155. What I have found out from councils is that fire brigades and ambulance services usually have a good backbone and tell them to bogoff. Can't say the same for some senior police officers who fail to back us. I make a point of driving through a bus only area if I am heading to one of our other bases. It is a busy transit hub which has issues and being a uniformed officer, I can hopefully deter something by just driving through and being seen. I've never had a PCN and would robustly challenge it.

I heard recently that our supervision are just passing the NIPs to officers now, they aren't getting involved and it's down to the officer in question to resolve the situation or pay the £60 fine. Should I receive one I'll complete the court hearing request and see what the magistrates make of the local council trying to fine me for doing the public service I took an oath to do.