Body Armour & CS on it's way?

[Adi-Fiddler]

As a company director why the hell would I want to dress up as a clown and pound the streets, we all know most police officers were under achievers that came from below average back ground. Most are earning far more in the police than they ever would in civvies.

I will publicly retract from that comment and apologise.

Which kind of begs the question as to why you joined a forum to interact with a bunch of clowns....

I was hopping that the forum would be free of some of the prejudices that the public encounter or even just perceive from police officers.

I am proud of the service I provide to my clients I am also proud of the relationship I have personally built with police officers around the country, At times it has been hard work and taken time to gain there trust and respect.

I have not encountered an attitude like AlphaOscars1 for a very long time and met it with the same contempt, unfortunately letting my mouth run (well fingers in this case) offending everyone, I apologise but it dose show that that ones actions can offend many, one police officers attitude or actions are the quickest thing to turn the public off the police.

[LongTail]

Now that's sorted out...

I'm genuinely interested in how the arming of loss prevention officers with offensive weapons and prohibited weapons is done. How are the provisions of the Prevention of Crime Act and the Firearms Act circumvented?

Although I do think AO1 is correct about s. 117 of PACE, as it only applies to constables or service policemen.

[Chief]

Adi,

fair one... I'm glad we've got that sorted.

Arming folk with CS won't happen, at least in the short term. It would require a change in the law and given that these things take some time, it's not even on the cards...

[Adi-Fiddler]

Longtail I was going to reply to your post last night but I had had enough by that point. I also found out today from a member of the local constabulary  that the said security guards only carried batons for a very sort time of around 3 weeks.

As I have said no one in our company carries a baton and if they were caught with one, they would be reported to the police and dismissed and depending on the circumstances would be physically handed to the police.

Ok so letÂ’s have a go at explaining it, may I point out that we as a company have not taken the serious decision to explore this option so I donÂ’t have the actual information on how a company would get the actual permission, so I may not be totally accurate.

The home office has the power to give permission for a private individual whose employment may bring him in to conflict with an identified threat for a said place and or for a said period of time.

I am struggling to find a way to write this with out writing a book but basically, a company approaches a senior police officer, he passes the request up the chain of command some where along the line the police have to include there lawyers and eventually the home office, people representing all three departments meet with the company, local senior officers and local judges to determine if there is a valid reason and set the rules. Once this is agreed all parties go to court (I think itÂ’s the high court) to get the licence.

The company has to be in business for longer than 6 years and not have any legal skeletons; it has to get adequate insurance. Its employers that will be issued have to have a back ground check and have worked for the company for over 2 years. They need to be trained in the batons use, conflict management and aspects of law, as per the home office guidelines. This training can be given by a private company or by police forces own instructors. Once this has been completed each member of staff has to go to crown court and swear an oath and a licence is issued.

In reality I think if I was to walk into a police station and asked if I can carry a baton I would be told no and if the person I asked did say hold on I will ask my boss, he would be told no. There is a certain level that you should approach for it to be passed up the chain of command and you could would be met with no at most of them so you need a very valid reason to get it all the way to court but it is possible and I am led to believe that it is the same with CS.

I hope this helps although I appreciate that it is not a very good explanation.

I agree that it is quite shocking; I know some companyÂ’s that I wouldnÂ’t even trust enough to call security companyÂ’s. And, to be fair to AlfaOscar1 I agree with some of his comments about SOME security guards. But it is inevitable that some people will be given extra powers to assist the police in upholding the law.

[chica]

In our defence lesson yesterday, we watched a video where an officer used cs spray on a guy, but it didnt work.  Has that ever happened to officers on here?

[Chiprafp]

There is a large percentage of people who are immune to the effects of cs Gas wether that translates over to the liquid I do not know, But I am one of the blessed people who the gas does not affect )

[Chris]

Going back to the orgional point which was PCSO's and Protective Equipment.

This weeks Police Review reports that BTP PCSO's are to be given handcuffs following the decision to give them the power to detain.

Absolutely amazing ...

[chica]

I think there are going to be big changes soon to the role of a PCSO.  Lots of talk going around about powers of detention, some PCSOs to be trained soon I hear, and further defence training as body armour to be issued.

[LongTail]

Adi,

Thanks for that.

Must admit that I've never heard of this procedure and know of no legislation in place to allow it to happen. My understanding always was that a person required lawful authority (armed services) or reasonable excuse (just found it) to have an offensive weapon in their possession.

As for CS this can be authorised by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, as the general exemption only covers Crown employees.

No idea what oath would be sworn by private security guards in court...never heard of that.

I'd be amazed if it ever happened.

[fiveoh]

I think there are going to be big changes soon to the role of a PCSO.  Lots of talk going around about powers of detention, some PCSOs to be trained soon I hear, and further defence training as body armour to be issued.

Brilliant.  More trouble to get them out of.

And in answer to the above question, in my experience the only people CS affects is police officers!

[sprog5009]

Just to throw another point into the discussion!!

Is this a clever way by the Home Office of grdually pi**ing specials off then passing law to replace them with PCSOs, giving them the same powers and training as specials have at the minute.

Anybody else thought of this?