Opinion on PCSO's

[Storm]

Sparky,

Bit off topic as it's a PCSO Topic, but I'll reply...

Don't need a lecture on what specials do - I was one before I joined full time. If what I said insult you then I worry as it's true - the majority of specials cannot work throughout the day during the week as they are doing paid work. They do have their uses, as I had, but I also accept that I had my limitations, partly through training, partly through other commitments, and as a SC I used to regularly put in 40+ hour months. An indepth communtiy case would be difficult for any SC who works a regular job to see through all the way - When you see a case through, is that S5, D&D stuff, wherby it's PNDable on the night or the morning after. I don't know any SCs who attend CPS appointments and case progression meetings, the regulars normally do that.

As re the comment about pay - join Humberside, they pay the SCs.

[oldbillplod]

So in your opinion you'd deny a community extra pairs of trained eyes and ears.

Well for a start you can hardly call a PCSO trained can you?
Give me one valid argument why a PCSO is a better option than a police officer and i'll reconsider.

[Chief]

Give me one valid argument why a PCSO is a better option than a police officer and i'll reconsider.

They're cheaper
They can deal with stuff which doesn't actually require a trained police officer to do
They don't whinge & moan when they get allocated shite jobs
They don't book themselves 'unavailable' at the start of their shift and let everyone else do the work
They don't answer their radios only when it suits them
They update their status on a regular basis
They don't book on and spend the whole shift doing only stuff they want to do
They don't require to wait for another unit to back them up before they wipe their arse (OK, some of them do)
They don't require two officers to take one statement (OK they don't take statements, but hey, I'm on a roll)
They can get outside companies to pay for their cars (some of them)
They can do loads of stuff leaving police free to actually fight crime - meetings, scene guarding, property collecting, low-level enquiries, house to house, parking, etc
They're helpful
They don't refuse to go to jobs because they are too busy and then suddenly free themselves up for exciting blue-light jobs
They don't neglect to provide information required of them from others but demand it of those others, and now.
They're happy to stand by if you are too busy to deal with their request right now
They don't provide either too much or too little information (OK, you got me there too, some of them do)
How long have I got....oh that'll do.


Edit: In compiling my list above I wish to point out that not all police officers are lazy, ignorant, selfish, self-centred, excitement-seeking, arrogant knobs - just some.

[oldbillplod]

But the above list doesn't make them better options does it?
It just means that they have taken over the above things that police officers used to do, thus enabling the government to shrink the number of police available to deal with what they were initially paid to do.

However I will agree on one matter they are cheaper, but as they normally walk in pairs or more that can also be discounted.

[Chief]

Of course it makes them better options... if I need my hedge cut and I can pay a tree surgeon £200 or a gardener £100 and the skills required to cut the hedge don't require a tree surgeon, and what's more if I do employ the tree surgeon he'll be 2 days late, moan like fuck, fail to get back to me, complain that hedge cutting is beneath him and then won't come until another tree surgeon in the practice is free to accompany him...then I'd say the summary is the best option for me is a gardener.

[oldbillplod]

Well I suppose if you can't prove a point then generalising by saying police officers are lazy and give bad value for money but PCSO's aren't, well then you must be correct.

[Chief]

oldbillplod,

I don't think I'm trying to prove a point, I'm giving my opinion, and I was careful in compiling my list to say that I was only referring to some officers.

If you think it's good value for money paying someone £33,000 to stand outside a school asking people not to park on the zig-zags (for instance) when you can pay someone £18,000 and a whole heck of a lot less in training, then you must have a very strange sense of financial matters.

It's funny how it's OK to generalise about PCSOs but not Police Officers?

[Storm]

Some PCSOs I know are on 22k, some cops are on 23.5k

[Chief]

I think you'll find that PCSOs on wages close to police officers are not the norm. many forces, when the introduced PCSOs made a mistake by paying them too much, this was quickly realised when every other force who paid significantly less's figures were released.

My own force was one such which paid amongst the highest salary. As a consequence these salaries have been frozen so the PCSOs will be stuck on that wage without pay increments for several years until a more 'equitable' wage differential is reached. This was something which wasn't pointed out to them when they join, and having signed on the dotted line at a certain salary with an expectation of cost of living rises every year, this has caused some consternation.

As of last year there was only one force paying more to starting PCSOs than to starting PCs - Hertfordshire and only 3 paying more to maximum salaried PCSOs than recruit PCs

It's one of the fallacies which police officers and people who knock the role of PCSOs often shout about but fail to mention that a significant proportion of PCSOs actually earn much less than the oft quoted figures.

A significant proportion of police officers earn significantly more than £24k and as a tax payer I don't see why I should have to fork out that amount of money for someone to stand on a street corner doing some of the low level stuff when I can get it cheaper elsewhere, thus releasing more money for my local school or hospital.

[Rent-a-Cop]

Some PCSOs I know are on 22k, some cops are on 23.5k

I think BTP PCSOs are on around £23,000pa. I have to say, some of what I've read here seems a bit ignorant and narrow minded to say the least. I liked Chief's list though. Very true.

[chica]

What about the bobbies who WON'T go out alone and do HVP because they don't feel safe being alone, and yet off walks a female PCSO who is deployed to a gang of lads casing YCA.... All of whom have bag fulls of history on them.  

'Proper policing' it appears some think thats just blue & twos jobs - correct me if I'm wrong!

And the biggest point to make is you need an awful lot of backbone to carry out the role.... There is no uniform or tools to hide behind.  

I went into the role as a PCSO never wanting to be a PC.  The role is different to a bobbie which again, some just cant fathom it out.  We are not under anyone, we work along side and if some of you drop the egos that comes with the uniform and talk to your PCSOs you might learn a tip or two, get access to good intel, a helping hand etc etc....! Most PCSOs are now earning 20k.... Just thought I'd throw that in to fuel the fire.

I'll come back in a few months to read the new and updated insults.

[PTCOP]

Interesting debate.

I think its important to remember that its the role thats being discussed, not individuals. It seems there's alot of things being taken very personally, that need not be.

For me this comes down to a rough mathmatical equation. Additional government funding for PCSO's buys us x amount, for the sake of argument, lets say 100, including uniform, training etc. For the same investment, it might buy an additonal 60 police officers, taking into account the differential in pay, training etc etc.

So is it better to have more police officers on the street(say 60), or perhaps even more 'pairs of eyes and ears' on the street(say 100) reassuring communities?

For my mind, I would like to see a police officer. No offense to anyone. Its my preference.

Having been a Special for many many years, I take on board the great points made by Chief and Storm. Sparky, I have to say I think you are the exception rather than the rule. I've known very few specials (if any)thru my service that can do days, and any case management at all.

All things being equal, my view is that the investment should be into more police officers, or into measures to enable more police officers to be out on the street more of the time. I believe that in the long term police officers would pay back in terms of their flexibility, training and ability to tackle any number of situations including those that escalate.

[busterbloodvessel]

Whilst I totally agree with Chief on the value of PCSOs, I think it would have been a better idea to spend the money paid to PCSOs on back-office staff to do the paperwork generated by PCs, meaning that officers had more time to spend on being visible to the public and fighting crime. Then this debate wouldn't arise.

[youngdad33]

Well I suppose if you can't prove a point then generalising by saying police officers are lazy and give bad value for money but PCSO's aren't, well then you must be correct.

I guess you can't help some people...

That list is spot on!  Especialy the blue-light run one  :lol:

[tnpmonkey]

ive just trained and passed as a PCSO and i can see both sides of the story

As much as people dont like to hear it, we (POLICE) are paid for by the public and are here to serve the public to what they want

In all surveys carried out in the last few years the public have said that there main priority is more visable police on the streets

This would not happen if we just employed more PCs as there time is spent on paperwork,csi,tactical etc etc and i can guarantee that if we had 60 more PCs you wouldnt see them walking the streets, organising commitees and clubs and doing the role that the public want

Its my belief that the PCSO role should become part of being a PC, like you have tactical,csi,cid,neighbourhood PCs etc etc

That way the PCSO would stay the same, but would be provided by fully PC trained officers but not to be called out like normal PCs .

If u get what i mean