BTP issue PCSO'S with cuffs

[Beeblebrox]

Beeble, you still haven't explained what is wrong with the current method of training probationers, and why you think there is a problem.

I think the original issue stemmed from a comment Chief made that UK Police officers undergo less training that many of their foreign counterparts.

From a training perspective it struck me that with the right quality of candidate and a two year period it should be possible to train Police officers to a very high level.

It struck me from the entry requirements and comments on other threads about start times etc that there are not many places but a lot of willing candidates, that suggests that entry requirements may be too low.

Your comments about your probationers applying for a CID placement to improve there detection skills is I take it not a given and they have to be accepted? if so then it does not really mimic what Doctors and Nurses go through with their rotations.

Their is continual talk in the media of cost cutting, more resources on the street etc etc, when was the system of training last reviewed or changed? I would guess not recently.

I have done a lot of work in training in a lot of different environments and there is always room for improvement in whatever is done.

Do you think the current selection and training of new recruits is perfect?

or has there been a rush to get more "bobbies on the beat" and standards have dropped?

Beeble

[Chief]

PLM,

are you just talking about BTP PCSOs in relation to police not attending within 30 mins.

See the report I mentioned in previous post in this thread which indicates that in the trial period involving 5 or 6 forces, only 1% of detained people had to be released because the 30 mins time limit was up. Which may indicate that your fears may be unfounded.

[Chief]

BB,

do you think the German Police don't learn on the job aswell when they finish training school?

What I know is that German police officers hitting the streets after training are of far more use to their colleagues and the general public than UK police who not only have to be baby-sat in terms of procedure, but also in law, can't drive, have no internal qualifications and have to be spoon-fed information and guidance. I believe their crime scene management training is far higher, they are able to take fingerprints and photograph accident and crimes scenes. I remember in the middle 80's seeing all their patrol cars equipped with SLR cameras which were used for RTAs and crimes scenes by the patrol officers.

German Police officers are fully trained in the law - not just select sections - they are fully firearms trained, they have done the driving courses, they are fully communications trained, they are fully PSU/Riot trained, and indeed are used as PSU officers for major incidents throughout their training - the 'riot squad' equipment and vehicles is held at training schools.

When they arrive on section they don't need to be abstracted from the shift in order to do everything the UK probationers have to because they've already done it.

Sure they may well need some guidance in face-to-face dealing with incidents, but they come from a far stronger position than UK police.

If you think UK police are equivalent or better the day after training school than the German Police, you're having a laugh.

I speak of Germany as I have been on several exchange trips with the German Police, have patrolled with them on many occasions and have had them patrol with me. I have also visited several of their training schools and sat in on lessons, lectures and exercises. But I think other European countries also have a longer training input than the UK.

[PLM]

Chief,
I am not referring specifically to BTP - though my experiences of BTP are that they cover considerably larger ground than most, and consequently will struggle to make up that ground (as is clearly the case in most BTP calls I have attended) in responding to the assistance of PCSOs, who detain people.

I made the comments though in response to comment made by a BTP Officer specifically about BTP and PCSOs.  And I do think that of all the forces, BTP would struggle most in this area.

I do take on board your comments regarding the trial period.  However, the number of forces who trialed this is just a small fraction of the 43 Forces in England and wales, not to mention the non Home Office forces.

Sadly, I am hardly suprised that these trial periods proved successful.  A number of people, both government and Senior Officers, have a vested interest in making PCSOs work.

Surely, we've all been in this job long enough to know how stats can be manipulated.  

Apparently, my division currently achieve 82% of our response times to incidents - but in reality, I am constantly attending jobs, which in some cases are days old!

Sorry, but I remain very skeptical.

These people were supposed to be the eyes and ears of the Police; now they are taking an active role in actual Policing - and that in my view is not right.

[Chief]

PLM,

I suspect the incidents you attend days old aren't the ones which are measured for stats...

[PLM]

Chief,
No - I am in fact referring to incidents, which are privy to response charter times, this being all calls to Police, which require a Police attendance and are graded in order of priority.

[josh]

His high vis cycling jacket had POLICE in big letters on the back and community support below it in much smaller typeface, otherwise he looked identical to all the other MTB police around london, same bike, same kit, just two small words on the jacket where the give away.

I was sociolising with friends the other night and 2 PCSO's pulled up in a vehicle. The only reason you could tell they were PCSO's was because they hay Blue epaulettes on there shirt and i only saw this because she took her coat off and placed it in the vehicle.

[ell100]

we all know why PCSO's are put on the street but surely giving them more powers, cuffs ect is just a way for the government to get cheap policing on the streets!? GET MORE REGULARS OUT FROM BEHIND DESKS

[Bryer]

I thought they issued their PCSO's with cuffs due to the mainline train patrols. If someone kicks off on a train, which is in between stops, for example, Woking to Clapham Junction, the PCSO and other passengers could be put at risk by the suspect if not detained and managed in a responsible way... the journey between Woking and Clapham Junction is over 30 minutes.

[Rent-a-Cop]

I thought they issued their PCSO's with cuffs due to the mainline train patrols. If someone kicks off on a train, which is in between stops, for example, Woking to Clapham Junction, the PCSO and other passengers could be put at risk by the suspect if not detained and managed in a responsible way... the journey between Woking and Clapham Junction is over 30 minutes.

No, the journey is about 18-mins....Sorry for nitpicking, lol. I can see why BTP PCSOs would need the cuffs is this is the reason for it, as there's a limited area for you to bail out to if it all kicks off between stations!